Suicide Witnesses| William Murdoch

Shooting and Suicide Witnesses
- An Overview

There are - maybe surprisingly - quite a number of witnesses who mention a suicide or shooting and/or use of a gun on that fateful night. This page attempts to list them all and is being regularly updated as more evidence comes to light. The names are listed in alphabetical order, with unknown names listed at the end. Click on each name to discover more information about the person and an analysis of the accuracy or reliability of their account.

Quick access menu:

Named Suicide Accounts (34)
Unnamed Suicide Accounts (11)
Other Shooting Accounts (64)
Other Unnamed Shooting Accounts (4)

Each witness account will be analysed and based on present available information divided into the following catagories:

Please note: This page and many connected pages are still under construction. The author also gratefully acknowledges the following in compiling the shooting/suicide witnesses list:

Bill Wormstedt
George Behe
George Jacub
Ioannis Geogiou
Senan Molony

Named Suicide Accounts (34)

Accounts of a suicide by witnesses who can be identified by name
Click on their image or name to find out more about each account:

Name	Status	Who	Account
Birkhead, May	Carpathia passenger	Captain Smith	"Shot himself with a pistol"
Chevré, Paul Romaine	First Class passenger	Captain Smith	"Shot himself. I saw him fall..."
Collins, John	Assistant Cook	Senior Mate	"Shot the two men…turned the revolver on himself."
Collyer, Charlotte	Second Class passenger	Murdoch	"They say he shot himself."
Daly, Eugene	Third Class passenger	Officer	"Lying on the deck...told me he shot himself."
Daly, Peter Denis	First Class passenger	Officer	"‘Several shots’...an officer had killed himself."
Daniel, Robert	First Class passenger	Murdoch	"Shot himself in the temple..."
Davis, Mary	Second Class passenger	Murdoch	"Seeing... Murdoch commit suicide by shooting."
Dillon, Thomas	Trimmer	Murdoch	"First Officer, Mr Murdoch, shot himself."
Dittmar- Pittmann, Max	'Third officer'	Murdoch	"Realising the severity... shoots himself."
Dodge, Dr. Washington	First Class	Officer	"Two men shot...turned the revolver on himself."
Dorking, Edward Arthur	Third Class passenger	Officer	"Saw an officer... shoot himself."
Francatelli, Miss Laura	First Class passenger	Officer	"Dear brave officer...gave orders...and shot himself."
Harris, Frederick	Fireman	Murdoch	"The first officer, Mr. Murdoch, shot himself."
Hichens, Robert	Quarter- master	Officer	"An officer shot himself."
Jansson, Carl	Third Class passenger	Chief Officer	"Place a revolver in his mouth and shoot."
Kemp, Dr. J. F.	Carpathia physician	Captain Smith	"Smith put a pistol to his head and then fall down."
McGough, George	Able-bodied seaman	Murdoch	"Murdoch -God help me; don’t ask me what I saw."
McGough, James R.	First Class passenger	Officer	"One of the officers shot himself on the bridge."
Moody, J.R	Crew - Quartermaster	Murdoch	"I saw him raise his arm and shoot himself."
Olsson, Oscar Wilhelm	Third Class passenger	Murdoch	"Many people thought he had shot himself."
Peuchen, Major Arthur Godfrey	First Class passenger	Murdoch	"First officer shot himself... shot a man thru."
Rheims, George	First Class passenger	Officer	"Military salute... fired a bullet into his head."
Sjoblom, Anna Sofia	Third Class passenger	Officer	"Saw an officer shoot himself through the temple."
Smith, Albert	Steward	Murdoch	"Pistol to his right temple and fired. I saw him..."
Sunderland, Victor	Third Class	Officer	"A gentlemen told me that an officer had shot himself."
Svensson, Johan	Third Class	Officer	"He put his gun right in his mouth and shot."
Toppin, Frederick	White Star Line employee	Officers	"Two officers had shot themselves."
Whiteley, Thomas	Steward	Murdoch	"Chief officer shot one man... and then he shot himself."
Widener, Mrs George D.	First Class passenger	Officer	"I saw one of the officers shoot himself in the head."
Wilhelms, Charles	Second Class passenger	Murdoch	"Seen Murdoch, one of the officers, shoot himself."
Williams, Charles	Second Class passenger	Murdoch	"Murdoch... had blown his brains out with a revolver."
Williams, Jack	Crew - Able Seaman	Murdoch	"Pistol to his head...shot that ended his life rang out."
Williams, Richard Norris	First Class passenger	Captain Smith	"Heard the crack of a revolver shot..."

Unnamed Suicide Accounts (11)

Accounts of a suicide by witnesses who are anonymous or unable to be identified

Source	Status	Who	Account
*Sinking of the Titanic*	Two anonymous	First Officer	"The first officer…shot himself"
*News of the World*	One anonymous	Wilde	"Shot himself…dropped where he stood"
Coventry Herald	Steward	Murdoch	'Confirmed Mr Murdoch shot himself.'
Pat Toms	Dorset Grandmother	Officer	'Officer shooting himself told by my Grandmother'
*The Liverpool Echo*	First-class saloon steward	Murdoch	"I fear it is true that he did shoot himself."
*The Western Morning News*	Anonymous crewman leaving Lapland	Chief/First officer	""Fired at them...Then the officer shot himself.".”"
*The Yakima Herald*	7 passengers	Murdoch	"Say that First Officer Murdock shot himself."
*Western Daily Mercury*	Plymouth anonymous	Murdoch	"Pulled out his revolver and blew out his brains."
*New York Times*	Anonymous	Smith/First engineer	"Reported to have shot themselves."
*New York Times*	Anonymous	Officer	"Shot two men... shooting himself."
*Daily Mirror*	Carpathia passenger	Captain Smith	"committed suicide on the bridge."

Other Shooting Accounts (64)

Accounts involving the use of gun(s) or shooting(s)

Name	Status	Who	Account
Aasaf, Mrs. Mariana	Third Class	Captain Smith	"Shot down several of them"
Aubart, Mme. Léontine Pauline	First Class	Officer	"An officer pointed a gun at him"
Badman, Miss Emily	Third Class	Officers	"Shoot some men who tried to get in lifeboats"
Beane, Edward	Second Class	Crew	"I saw a man shot down for trying to break through"
Beane, Ethel	Second Class	Crew	"Holding men back ...at gunpoint...one man shot"
Bentham, Lillian	Second Class	Crew member	"Fire his pistol ...dozen were shot, maybe more"
Bonnell, Mrs. W.F.	First Class	Officers	"There was some shooting."
Brereton, George	First Class	Steward	"Third-class passenger... shot and killed by a steward"
Bride, Harold	Crew	Himself	"Stoker... I shot him down..."
Brown, Caroline Lane	First Class	Officer	"Revolver and threatened to shoot...into the air."
Buss, Kate	Second Class	Officer	"Order to lower...if I didn't...he might shoot me"
Carter, William T	First Class	Officer	"Some shooting... his jaw was shot away"
Cavontina, Iian	Third class	Officer	"Replied by shooting the German and three other men"
Collett, Sidney	Second class	Officer	"Drawn revolver, said to me, ‘where are you going?’"
Cribb, Laura	Third Class	Officer	"Officer...revolver in his hand... he shot three."
Dick, Mrs. A. A.	First Class	2nd/3rd Officer	"Three men shot in the steerage."
Dowdell, Elizabeth	Third Class	Officer	"I saw an officer shoot three of them."
Duff-Gorden, Lady	First Class	Officer	"We heard several pistol shots"
Fitzpatrick, Cecil William	Mess Steward	Officer	"Revolver shot...dropped dead in the water"
Fortune, Mary	First Class	Officers	"Revolvers....to fire directly at the men"
Gracie, Colonel Archibald	First Class	Lightoller	"He fired off a pistol to make them get out"
Goldsmith, Emily	Third Class	Officer	"Officer firing three warning shots in the air"
Goldsmith Jr., Frank	Third Class	Officer	"Firing warning shots into the air four feet away."
Harris, Irene	First Class	Major Butt	"Gun in his hand and covered the men."
Hannah, Borak	Third Class	Officer(s)	"Shot at by officers...a coat with six bullet holes."
Harder, George	First Class	Unknown	"Three Italians were killed, but by whom he does not know"
Hesse, H.	Electrician	Officer(s)	"Saw one shot first class passenger...heard shots."
Hosono, Masabumi	Second Class	Sailors	"If I became the target of a pistol shot... be the same."
Hoyt, Jane	First Class	Wilde	"Collap D... Wilde used gun ordered out."
Hurst, Walter	Crew - Fireman	Wilde	"Fired 2 revolver shots shouting... get back"
Hyman Abraham	Third Class	Officer	"Pistol in his hand...the officer fired at him."
Jermyn, Annie	Third Class	Officer	"Officer drew this revolver and shot him in the head."
Krekorian, Nishan	Third Class	Officer	"Two men try to get into a boat..officer shot them."
Lengyel, Dr. Arpad	Carpathia Surgeon	Captain Smith	"shoot down two men who tried to climb into a lifeboat."
Littlejohn Alexander James	Crew - Saloon steward	Wilde	"Wilde shot Italian waiter."
Lightoller, Charles	Crew - Second Officer	Lightoller	"Vigorously flourishing my revolver."
Louch, Alice	Second class	Sailor	"Drew a revolver and pressing it to the man's head shot him."
Lowe, Harold	Crew - Fifth Officer	Lowe	"I heard them and I fired them."
Mccoy, Agnes and Alice	Third class	Officer	"Pointing his revolver... told them ...he would shoot"
McGiffin, Captain James	Marine Superintendent	Murdoch	"Shoot a crewman... struck the man's jaw"
Mauge, Paul	Kitchen Clerk	Passenger	"Shooting a gun in all directions"
Mellors, William	Second Class Passenger	Officers	"Threaten male passengers with revolvers"
Midtsjo, Karl Albert	Third Class Passenger	Officers	"Shot when they tried to push their way..."
Murphy, Margaret	Third Class Passenger	Sailors	"Shot him and his body tumbled into the water"
Nackid, Mary	Third Class	Unknown	"Saw two men from Lebanon shot."
Nakid, Sahid	Third Class	Sailor	"A sailor pulled a revolver and shot him."
Nilsson, Berta Olivia	Third class	Unknown	"They shot him and pushed his body into the ocean"
Nicols, Walter	Crew - Steward	Unknown	"Saw two flashes and heard two revolver reports"
Ogden, Mrs. Louis Mansfield,	Carpathia passenger	First officer	"The first officer was standing by with a pistol, to William Carter 'If you do get in that boat I'll shoot you' "
Renouf, Lillian	Second class	Officers	"Officers raised their guns and shot these men down"
Rugg, Emily	Second class	Officers	"Two men who were trying to crowd out women were shot. "
Sap, Jules	Third Class passenger	Officers	"Threatened with death... by officers with revolvers"
Senior, Harry	Crew - Fireman	First Officer	"Produce revolver fire shots over heads"
Shawneene, George Joseph	Third Class passenger	Officers	"Officers fired shots in the air to frighten men"
Snyder, John Pilsbury	First class	Crew	"Three...passengers were shot...and thrown overboard"
Stanley, Amy	Third Class passenger	Crew member	"Fired a pistol to prevent a rush"
Stengel, Charles	First Class passenger	Officers	"The officer said: 'I will...get my gun.'.. five shots."
Taussig, Tillie	First Class	Unknown	"I heard a shot and I am sure it was he that went down."
Thayer, Jr, John B.	First Class passenger	Purser McElroy	"Fired two warning shots into the air"
Thompson, Harry	Able seaman, crew	Murdoch	"Three men... were shot dead"
Toomey, Ellen	Second class servant	officer	" stood by with drawn revolver...threatened to shoot"
Watt, Elizabeth	Second class	Master at arms	"The master at arms was standing with a gun."
Wennerstrom, August	Third Class passenger	Someone	"Fired a pistol at all who tried to climb aboard."
White, Alfred	Crew	Unknown	"We heard some fifteen or twenty shots from the rail of the ship"
Woolner, Hugh	First Class passenger	Someone	"Collapsible C... pistol flashes."

Other Unnamed Shooting Accounts (4)

Accounts involving the use of gun(s) or shooting(s) by unidentified persons

Source	Status	Who	Account
The New York Times	German woman	Unknown	"She said he was shot, insisting on it"
"Voices from the Titanic"	Seaman	Chief Officer	"Shoot at two Italians ...the officer shot one of them."
Daily Sketch	Unknown	Murdock	"I saw Mr. Murdock shoot down an Italian."
Manchester Guardian	Seaman	Chief Officer	"Saw the chief officer shoot an Italian passenger."

Notes

In a chapter entitled “Shots in the Dark,” Walter Lord writes in his book The Night Lives On:

“Through the years there have also been stories of actual shootings, but serious students have largely written them off as the concoctions of a sensationalist press that stopped at nothing for dramatic effect. I have always gone along with this reasoning.”(21.)

His attitude changed upon the discovery of Eugene Daly’s and George Rheim’s letters. After relating their evidence he wrote:

“These strikingly similar accounts come from completely independent sources. There’s no reason to suppose that Eugene Daly and George Rheims were ever in touch. Both were writing a private letter to an intimate member of the family, not an account for the press. Both were writing immediately after the event, not years later when fantasy might have taken over. They had absolutely no reason to fabricate, but every reason to be telling the truth as far as they saw it… The whole incident can’t be verified, yet can’t be dismissed. It was not just one more lurid tale appearing in the yellow press; it was witnessed and independently described by two separate firsthand sources. It must be taken seriously, but beyond that, it remains a mystery.” (Walter Lord, The Night Lives On (21.))

The above accounts have various shades of reliability, but the author puts forward the proposition for the sake of simplicity that the strongest evidence is from Rheims, Daly and Svensson, whose accurate testimony holds up to scrutiny, both being on the boat deck at the right time and writing independent yet complimentary accounts in the form of personal letters and reports soon after the event. Daly may have the ‘edge’ in that he also testified at the 1915 Limitation of Liability hearings. We can most certainly eliminate "Dittmar-Pittman" as well as possibly the accounts of Chevré, Francatelli and McGough. The remaining 27 accounts have shades of possibility. Hichens and Mr. Toppin, in light of their positions, provide surprising support.

Many of the accounts could well be unsubstantiated rumour (i.e. “second-hand”) but should not be simply discounted as such. While the term ‘rumour’ has negative connotations, in the context of the first-hand testimony that specifically mentions suicide, there is no reason to out-rightly discard it as malicious gossip. It confirms that a fairly large number of people from a variety of backgrounds were relating experiences that included seeing a shooting/suicide.

However, it must be maintained that even with this substantial number of accounts, there is still not enough evidence to put forward the alleged suicide as fact. What may have started as a rumour from a bitter survivor could have been transformed and cross-pollinated into fact in the minds of the eyewitnesses whose innocent observations –in their minds- fit into the equation. In the aftermath of the disaster and due to the lack of rapid communication, full details not exposed until many days after the event, much rumour and speculation existed, with completely false stories perpetrated as fact.

While the volume of evidence resulting from an event that took place in Titanic’s last moments is not expected to be great, with most observers being among the 1500 who perished in the sea, there is still not sufficient detail and reliability to confirm the incident. However, there is enough evidence to confirm one vital point: First Officer Murdoch’s suicide or that of the other officers cannot be completely ruled out. There is a possibility that an alleged suicide did take place. By also reviewing the research put forward in defence of the allegations a more comprehensive understanding of the situation can be achieved (refer to "Alternative Accounts").

Next... Alternative Accounts

Murdoch

Side Menu: The Mystery

Webley "Pistol"